so when you kill a leader, harris, like osama bin laden, the movement goes on. >> you echo each other a little bit. but you say you go a step further, the enemy is building, will not be deterred. what's happening. >> true, harris. actually, the general is right, it is about an ideology, no doubt. and one more point, the administration unfortunately and its advisers have refused to engage this ideology, to confront this ideology. from memos the past few years, says there is no ideology. if you actually don't recognize it exists, it will continue to exist and recruit more people. as important also are the forces that we should have allied ourselves with against the jihadists. look what's happening in egypt and tunesia and libya. who is demonstrating on the streets against the islamists and their allies and the jihadists? the youth, women, minorities. we didn't have a strategy to ally with them the last ten years. by now, we have anti-jihadist and anti-forces. >> part of the ideology, is it religious, one group against the world? >> it is perceived by the jihadists that they are the ones